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Challenge 1 - Hands (32 posts)

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  1. Javier "Goosh" Solsona (admin)

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Hello everybody

    So, I figured we should start with one fun little challenge.

    Topic: Hands
    Due Date: 30 Jun 2009

    Hands are often overlooked when rigging. They are often setup quickly without much thought.
    The challenge is to setup a nice, animation friendly, easy to use, easy to achieve poses hand.

    Happy rigging

    Javier

    PS: Motion system only, we'll deal with deformations some other time.

  2. mlefevre

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Cool

    What should people submit?
    A demonstration via youtube/vimeo and/or the scene file?

  3. Javier "Goosh" Solsona (admin)

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Yeah.. a video showing the setup plus a file

    The idea behind this mainly is to share ideas, learn all together and expand the knowledge base

  4. Javier "Goosh" Solsona (admin)

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    I tweaked a bit PackageMan's hand for those that would like to work from an existing model and not built their own

    http://www.rigging101.com/files/hand_model.zip

  5. scroll_lock

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    by Hands - you mean Hands + Arms or Hands only?

  6. mlefevre

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Thanks for the model file.

    scroll_lock : Going by the model, I'd say hands only.

  7. scroll_lock

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    ahh.. .sorry didn't checked the model

  8. damodar

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Great thought guys I am in for the challenge and thanks for the hand model

  9. xzof

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Only for Maya users ? I would like to take part of this challenge under XSI..

  10. Javier "Goosh" Solsona (admin)

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Not at all.. it's for anybody..
    I just happen to have a Maya model so I made it available.

    Use whatever you like.

    If somebody would like to convert the current model to max and xsi and whatever else, feel free to do so.

  11. tdHendrix

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Hey everyone. This is my hand rig for the challenge. I uploaded a video to youtube showing how the rig works. Just click on the image below to go to the youtube video. My goal was to create a rig that you could use with just a GUI and no menus. For this rig I was just making stuff up as I went, so this is more of a prototype rig. I have lots of cool ideas for the next time I make a hand rig, but I don't have enough time to keep working on this one at the moment.

    For anyone that watches the video, do you like how the video zooms to where the action is at or would you rather see the whole screen all the time? Just wondering cause I plan on making video tutorials in the near future.

    Click here to download the Maya scene file



  12. theflash

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Nice stuff Greg. I really like this setup. I cant think of anything better than this. Thanks for posting the detailed video.

  13. scroll_lock

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Nice work Greg
    Can I comment something about your rig , or I should do it after the challenge is finished ?
    ps: About the zooming - I prefer these captures without them. Only if it's really impossible to see something then, it's better.

  14. scroll_lock

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    aaaaaand, here is my attempt at the challenge. I started with a model I'm currently working with but I thought I could get in trouble if I show it, so I used Javier's model instead. Thanks Goosh! I hurried to make it this week as the other one will be incredible busy for me at work. Sooooo... it could be done lot lot lot better than this. Pretty basic concepts, but I think there is almost everything the animators need.

    maya file (done in Maya 2008 Extension2):
    http://scroll-lock.eu/images/handRig_v001.ma

    youtube video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Pn91cS1Wc

    some notes about the rig:
    One control for the hand and controls for the phalanges of the fingers. No custom guis, no fancy stuff
    The main hand control has some attributes to control the twisting and rolling of the palm.
    All the fingers have individual Curl, Bend and Twist attributes. The last phalanx of the index finger has attribute called "pin" - you can see what it does in the video. I have done this only for the index finger, but it can be of course built the same way on the rest. That's one of the things I could have done if I had more time this week. At the end of the video I show how you can control the pivot points for all the rotations happening in the rig.

    Thank Ya!

  15. Javier "Goosh" Solsona (admin)

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Nie guys.. VERY cool stuff

    I like Greg's easy of use (I like how you change between the modes, etc), and I totally dig Marin's motion system.

    My approach is VERY different
    I would do something similar to Marin's motion system, but I'm just concentrating on another two aspects of it (you'll see soon) that I haven't seen around too much.

    I figured at the end, the ultimate setup would be one that combines a lot of the different setups we'll see (and that's the whole point of the exercise)

    Keep on rigging!

  16. kwilli30

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    @scroll_lock really REALLY dig the ideas in that hand rig! I love using IK fingers, but it seemes like there's a lot of flexibility in that setup

  17. tdHendrix

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Thanks for all the comments. Go ahead scroll_lock, say whatever you want Your rig is very cool. Can't wait to see what everyone else does.

  18. Javier "Goosh" Solsona (admin)

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Hey all

    Ok.. here is my quick attempt at something new. (sorry, couldn't get the sound to work)

    http://www.rigging101.com/files/handTest.mov

    (my file is a mess, I'll post it some other time)

    Disclaimer: This is just a small portion of what I might do. (I would most probably add something like what Marin did with ik, etc)

    But I just wanted to show 2 things I had done a long time ago and never showed it.

    1) selection:
    I wanted to move away from controllers and have the actual geometry be my controller. This way I could actually animate the model itself (segmented anyway)

    if you select any finger joint, the whole finger gets selected (turns red) and you have the attributes for the fingers. (in this case, curl, meta bend, base bend, twist, etc etc)

    if you select the hand, the whole hand (with fingers) turns red (gets selected), and you get other attributes. (like fist, curl, etc that affect the whole hand.. hence why all the hand with fingers gets selected)

    I find that this way the animator would know exactly what areas he can affect with the selected controller

    It's actually fairly simple setup. it's done via a jobScript when a selection is changed. (currently it's very hacky, but it can be made into a way more generic. I just wanted to prove the concept that's all)
    Each finger has it's own shader. When you select any part of the finger, a script runs that recognizes which finger it is and changes the color of the shader (to bright red)
    if the hand is selected, then it changes to hand shader, plus all the fingers.
    simple

    The only thing is that maya changes the wireframe color of the selection to bright green. so I had to do a bit more to get rid of that. (which made the script a lot slower) but it's basically that.

    2: things don't move linearly.
    Animation is not really what happens in each pose, but what happens in between them.

    So, if you make a fist. it's important how you get there. not just the last pose. (the fist)
    if you see in the video. The pinkie leads in the fist, but closing first then followed by the ring, then middle and finally index.
    This gives the animation a lot more life. and it's key.

    The curl is a similar thing.

    you don't really want to rotateX by the same number the tip the mid and the base (and meta) the ratios and the times are different.

    That adds also a lot to the animation to make it look alive.

    I did this via a lot of plus_minus_Averages and a lot of custom Set Driven Keys

    Hope you like it

    Regards

    Javier

  19. evad

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Javier,

    I like the idea of changing colors with the selection. That especially is helpful when dealing with smaller parts like fingers. If you wanted to optimize the number of shaders needed you could do it all with one shader and have a seperate blendColor node for each finger that the script job toggles. That would keep the view of materials in the scene a lot cleaner and reduce file size. As for the wire frame colors. You can always turn off selection highlighting in the viewport and just rely on your material changes. Then you wouldn't have to worry about the selection highlight changes slowing anything down. Great stuff, really opens up a lot of ideas for me.

  20. Javier "Goosh" Solsona (admin)

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Cool.. yeah, I figured there would be a better way to deal with the shaders, etc..
    I'm a bit rusty when it comes to Maya. Haven't used it in a year and a half :S

    What I like about this setup is that you don't have controllers. The mindset is a bit different. You just select the geometry that you want manipulate and go with that..

    My plan was to inspire others to expand on it. And it seems you already have good ideas on it. So success then

    Can't wait to see what other people come up with

    Javier

  21. sim.On

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    [quote]Each finger has it's own shader.[/quote]

    well, you dont need to have one shader for each finger . 2 shaders will be enough ...one , which is the initial shader , and one , with the red-color as "selected_material"

    you simply add one new custom_attribute ( non-keyable / non-visible in the channel-box ) to your Ctrl . and here you write in the name , for the initial shader . maybe it is good , also to create a second attribute , which holds the name of the "mesh" , assiciated with the particular-finger-control.

    so now , you change the shader of your mesh , to red ... once you "switch back to unselected , you assign the "initial Material" again ... do that would wokr also on other bodyParts - where you will e.g. have greenShoes and yellowShirts ... once those are selected , they turn into a different color .

    maybe that helps , to reduce the number of materials.

  22. Javier "Goosh" Solsona (admin)

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    See.. I knew you guys would come up with better more efficient ways of doing it..

  23. aseredy

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Hey Everyone,
    Wow! Really nice hand controls. You guys thought up some sick shiz. Nice work all.
    Cheers,
    andy

  24. scroll_lock

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Javier, Nice!!!
    Very cool idea for how you handle the selection! And you made the metacarpals also - I rarely see someone doing it. In the matter of fact I only do it in hyperreal rigs for real characters and now I didn't And if animated properly they add so much to the life of the character!
    Greg, you have great rig ! Just one thing I noticed is that for the thumb it will be better if you add one more phalanx

  25. Javier "Goosh" Solsona (admin)

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Oh yeah.. thanks for reminding me.. I forgot to mentioned the metacarpals

    Too often I see characters without them. No matter if they are cartoony or hyperreal you should always have them.

    You can't do certain poses without them!

    Add them in people!!

  26. leffler

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Very nice work everyone! Relly good stuff. Javier, really like the "non-controllers" also. Would be so cool to have a setup like that without the segments, but thats gonna be kind of hard I guess

  27. kwilli30

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    to do it without segments, you would need to bind or cluster the ends. They're just for selection purposes, as the actual select changes (per Javier's fist post.)

    Granted, that's going to slow things down, but for certain areas, like the neck, you'd probably have to do it anyway.

  28. Javier "Goosh" Solsona (admin)

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    You could do the noncontroller thing without too much problem

    all you would have to do is instead of coloring the shaders red or whatever just make them transparent

    so you still have them, you are still selecting them, but you can't see them but you get to see the mesh

    you could even add a transparency slider that controls the transparency of the segments.. that way you can have the 10% transparency so you get to see a bit of the segments, but work on the actual mesh

  29. scroll_lock

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    the challenge is over? Only 3 attempts ?

  30. kwilli30

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    Posted 8 years ago
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    Working on one...but it's slow going! Too much stuff going on at work. Plus, all the good ideas were already taken ;P

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